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Bmw 520d beats Toyota Prius in fuel economy test

Posted on by 32

You may wonder if this is a joke...well it isn’t! It is true! The 2.0 liter diesel engine of the Bmw showed better fuel economy than the well-known eco-friendly Toyota Prius. Some of you may see this camparison between the two cars ridiculous but if we look at the CO2 emissions of the two vehicles we see that there are almost equal: the Bmw delivers 41.9 mpg while the Prius, with almost 250 kg lighter, delivers 40.1 mpg.

The test between the two cars was made on the London-to-Geneva route. The Bmw equipped with a series of energy-saving features like the battery recharge when braking, good aerodynamics, low rolling resistance in a word the so-called EfficientDynamics showed no problems on the road and by the end of it also remained with a third of its tank in reserve.

Toyota Prius

The Prius ran out of gas but this happened only due to smaller tank and because the car is made for urban live. The advantage if hybrids can’t be seen on highway where the car is pushing through the wind, this can easily be seen in urban driving where the stop-and-go recaptures the car’s energy.

Now if we make a conclusion we can say that Bmw showed every one that its 5-series can beat also the eco-friendly Prius but what if the test would have been made inside a town...Would the Bmw be the winner?



32 comments:

New Study Finds Diesel Cars May Save Owners More Money Than Hybrids

IntelliChoice’s 2009 Hybrid & Diesel Car Survey shows most 2009 model-year hybrid and “clean diesel” vehicles deliver a lower cost of ownership compared to their gasoline-burning counterparts. The company concluded that clean diesel technology — included in the survey for the first time this year — could be a “game changer” in North America, especially if the Obama Administration adopts a tax program to encourage use of the fuel.

AK, You must have been a real poor student. Maybe you still are. Return to your first post below, and I quote from you, spelling mistakes, four letter words and all: "Who the f*ck gave anyone the idea that the 5 series will give a better gas mileage than the Prius?"

Starting off with the four letter words indicates you were already at the end of your rope when you began, but I’ll answer your question anyway. At the end of the economy test, you know - the one we’ve been discussing, it was found that "the BMW (520d) delivers 41.9 mpg while the Prius, with almost 250 kg lighter, delivers 40.1 mpg." Does this answer your question?

Your second comment, and I quote again from your post: "First this isn’t even a fair competition. Why?- because in order to get the full capabilties of the Prius, it would have to be driven around in urban areas to get its full potential in order for the batteries to recharge."

Ralph Kalal stated, as mentioned below, that, "Both cars were driven from London to Geneva, “using motorways and town driving.” That’s a direct route of 460 miles, but the newspaper added an additional 100 miles of urban driving, specifically to give the Prius an advantage through use of its hybrid drivetrain in the in-town setting in which it works best." So the test actually catered to the Prius’s stronger point, i.e. better economy in urban driving than highway driving. The trip actually was a fair competition and not as you suggest. You also state "...the Prius, it would have to be driven around in urban areas to get its full potential in order for the batteries to recharge." Are you actually suggesting that the Prius cannot recharge it’s battery pack during highway driving? Ridiculous!

Your third comment, and I quote: "Since the BMW runs directly on diesel, the people who testing the cars would not have been afraid to test it against the Prius in real driving situations."

AK, your third comment looks like something written by a third grade student on crack cocaine. When you sober up please take a close look at what you wrote and I’m sure you will agree. What is a car for if not for real driving situations? What better competition than one that is devised to mirror actual driving conditions?

Looking at this competition from all angles anyone would have to arrive at the same conclusion. The BMW, a heavier luxury car, beat the Prius, an economy car, in an economy competition and it didn’t run out of fuel!

good going ak

anyways these cars arent even comparable

Come now, 50cal. You still haven’t answered my question.

"rice burner engines (the same engine that gets awards) what does that make a four banger diesel anyway? a weed hacker or a work of art because it simply is a BMW?"

And what are you argueing about? That you are indeed a snob?

"I’ll bet you didn’t even compare the interior of the Prius with that of a VW, did you? Even though the VW is priced about the same as a Prius it actually uses real steel for seat rails, just like a real car rather than a golf cart."

Difference is, the Prius interior won’t fall off within 20K miles, even if the VW will have the "better interior".

And since you seem to be such a big fan of VWs, I don’t suppose you read the test conducted by Edmunds(a recent one, not a year old one) with a Prius, a VW TDI, a Fusion hybrid and a couple of others? Don’t worry, I suspect you were worshipping your diesel. Funny thing, the plasticky Prius beat out the VW in every test that was conducted winning by a substancial mileage difference.

"that the EUROPEAN BMW 118d ADVANCED DIESEL (predecessor of the BMW 520d) was NAMED 2008 WORLD GREEN CAR AT THE 2008 NEW YORK INTERNATIONAL AUTO SHOW,"

Iam sorry but you were the idiot(you are allowed to get mad) calling a award winning engine a rice burner when in fact it has scored more awards than your diesel.

And you still haven’t pointed out the time and date of my comment on the other link.

I suggest that you cool off, take a sniff of gas for a change instead of the diesel fumes you usually inhale.

"Maybe, just maybe, those Japanese engineers aren’t what they are cracked up to be......."

Ooh, lets blame the engineers for a coming up with the first mass produced family hybrid at a reasonable price. And so much for your "chucking out the battery" and all the other statements. Did you happen to read about the Prius having lowest operating cost and best retained value and what not? I guess not.

And did you hear about a certain hybrid which actually topped the sales chart for any model in Japan? A hybrid being the best seller. I suppose the Japanese are not so smart?

"Then we could discuss any differences of opinion in a more calm and intelligent manner."

Coming from a guy whose comments are littered with cheap shots. Blaming engineers, comparing quality against a car that costs almost twice as more and what not.

Hard to expect anything from you.

Its ok for AK47 to mention an award that was presented 12 years ago for the Prius but not ok for a couple of readers to mention that the Prius had been road tested during the past year (which indicates it was not designed just for urban trips), or that the EUROPEAN BMW 118d ADVANCED DIESEL (predecessor of the BMW 520d) was NAMED 2008 WORLD GREEN CAR AT THE 2008 NEW YORK INTERNATIONAL AUTO SHOW, or that this particular economy race between a BMW 520d and a Prius actually contained "an additional 100 miles of urban driving, specifically to give the Prius an advantage through use of its hybrid drivetrain in the in-town setting in which it works best".

What kind of thought process is involved in your argument, AK? Apparently very little. And please tell us what you are arguing about?

You can always tell when someone’s losing it. He grabs for the four letter words, preferably of one syllable, to try and push his point, whatever that may be in this case.

Also, AK, As this discussion has proceeded, I’ve noticed that your spelling deteriorates more while your sentences make even less sense than they did at first. I’m worried about you AK. Go outside and take a walk to cool off, so you won’t get so confused. Then we could discuss any differences of opinion in a more calm and intelligent manner.

I’ll bet you didn’t even compare the interior of the Prius with that of a VW, did you? Even though the VW is priced about the same as a Prius it actually uses real steel for seat rails, just like a real car rather than a golf cart. Not only that, it outperforms the Prius, just as the heavier BMW does. Additionally, the VW TDI gets excellent mileage, generally 43-56 mpg in mixed driving, and it doesn’t require a revamping of the entire World transportation infrastructure to support it.

AK47 quote: "If a hybrid was all that bad, BMW wouldn’t have come up with the all electric MINI."

AK, an all electric car is not a hybrid.......however, if BMW is researching it then it must be a good thing.

A comment on the race: "...and by the end of it (the BMW 520d) also remained with a third of its tank in reserve.....The Prius ran out of gas but this happened only due to...." Even you must admit, AK, this statement is hilarious! Especially considering the Prius is an economy car while the BMW is more of a luxury car. Does it really matter why the Prius ran out of fuel while the BMW 520d did not? Maybe there was a leak?? Maybe it was poorly designed with too small of a fuel tank for the engine?? Maybe, just maybe, those Japanese engineers aren’t what they are cracked up to be.......

THE FACT IS, THE PRIUS RAN OUT OF FUEL DURING AN ECONOMY RACE. So funny!

Another quote from this race: "BMW delivers 41.9 mpg while the Prius, ...almost 250 kg lighter, delivers 40.1 mpg"

AK, you’ve been beaten fair and square, just like the BMW 520d beat the Prius fair and square. Be a man and admit it.

I suppose we could melt down the BMW and make several Prius’s out of it. Would this make you happy? Could three Prius’s be as good as one BMW? Hmmm..... Nah!

Uncia quote: "Has anybody mentioned that the Prius used in this test was a second generation, and not the all-new 2010 model? According to Autoweek, they averaged 74.5 mpg in their test of mixed driving, which would easily have put it ahead of the BMW."

I saw the autoweek post of 2/2/09 where Toyota itself claims 65 mpg in the 2010 plug-in Prius hybrid. It sounds real good even at 65 mpg for combined gasoline and electric mode tests. There is a huge difference in mileage obtained from a Prius, depending on how it is driven. This is a quote from that Autoweek article: "That difference is just magnified, supercharged, turbocharged with a plug-in electric because how fast you go really pulls the current out of the battery. It is a big deal." That would also make a big difference.

Any hybrid can go unlimited miles per gallon if you can plug it in and recharge every 40 miles or so, not use the backup fossil fuel engine, and don’t count the fossil fuel needed to generate the electricity to recharge the battery packs.

Have you seen the press release on the Chevy Volt? GM is claiming 230 mpg!

"Has anybody mentioned that the Prius used in this test was a second generation, and not the all-new 2010 model? According to Autoweek, they averaged 74.5 mpg in their test of mixed driving, which would easily have put it ahead of the BMW."

I would but this is funnier. This guy’s using a year old link to practise his essay writing skills. Especially hilarious when he uses the same old link to try and prove I dislike BMWs.

N
that BMW had received The 2008 World Green Car Award. Quite an achievement, eh?"

SO? Didn’t the Prius get the green engine of the year? Along with a $hit load other awards. Like these

1997–98 Car of the Year Japan[151]
2003 Scientific American names Toyota Motor Corporation as "Business Leader of the Year" ("Scientific American 50"; December, 2003) for its singular accomplishment in the commercialization of affordable hybrid cars.
Motor Trend Car of the Year, 2004[19]
Car and Driver magazine’s Ten Best list for 2004.
North American Car of the Year award for 2004. Nominated in 2001.
International Engine of the Year for 2004.
"Best Engineered Vehicle for 2004" by SAE’s Automotive Engineering International magazine.[152]
2005 European Car of the Year (406 points, ahead of Citroën C4 with 267 points and Ford Focus II with 228).[153]
2006 EnerGuide Award (Midsize)[154]
2006 Intellichoice Best Overall Value of the Year, Midsize[155]
2007 Intellichoice Best in Class Winner :Best Retained Value, Lowest Fuel, Lowest Operating Costs, Lowest Ownership Costs[156]
Swiss government named Toyota Prius the world’s greenest car in a draft study of over 6,000 cars.[157]
Green Engine of the Year 2008 from International Engine of the Year Awards.[158]
2008 Nominated for Car of the Year Awards 2008, shortlisted for the UK’s top Green Car Awards
JD Power and Associates "Most Dependable Compact Car" for 2008[159] and 2009[160].

Please read carefully, that alone should cancel your theories, about plasticky interiors, rice burner engines (the same engine that gets awards) what does that make a four banger diesel anyway? a weed hacker or a work of art because it simply is a BMW?, all the inferior bits that stick on longer than BMWs.

And read the one about the affordable hybrid comments? If a hybrid was all that bad, BMW wouldn’t have come up with the all electric MINI.

"Besides if we go to the quality thing I suspect we can’t compare a $50,000 car with a $23,000 car and expect the same quality."

Uh, son, you were the one comparing the two. Remember your "check out the plastic seat rails" comments?

And can you point out the other comment I made on the other link and post the date as well?

Running away? Ah, if only it were possible for a person to scare me away with a snob stick.

Has anybody mentioned that the Prius used in this test was a second generation, and not the all-new 2010 model? According to Autoweek, they averaged 74.5 mpg in their test of mixed driving, which would easily have put it ahead of the BMW.

Hi AK, I thought I lost ya. But it does look like you’re running away, judging by your "final" comment. You’re probably right

in that I do get a little wordy sometimes especially when the facts are ignored and they must be pointed out again and again.

Apparently we both think its significant when a heavier car, regardless of whether its a BMW, Ford, or Ferrari, beats a Prius

fairly in a mileage contest, given that the Prius was actually designed to be an economy car while the BMW is more luxurious

and better handling.

If the Prius was designed only to be an urban car, as you suggest, why is it fitted with an engine that is 4 times the size

needed to simply recharge the battery pack for urban driving? This indicates that the designer did intend for it to be driven

on the highway too. Given this, it seems infinitely fair that the economy test included highway segments as well as urban

segments. If you still doubt the Prius was meant to travel the highways just do a google search on MotorWeek Road Test: 2010

Toyota Prius. Don’t believe all the hype at this site either but at least you will see the car being driven on highways.

There are many other road test sites for the Prius.

Its nice to see you do have a sense of humor, making believe there was no urban segment in the contest. Recall the other link

you commented on? The one started by Ralph Kalal? It stated that, "Both cars were driven from London to Geneva, “using

motorways and town driving.” That’s a direct route of 460 miles, but the newspaper added an additional 100 miles of urban

driving, specifically to give the Prius an advantage through use of its hybrid drivetrain in the in-town setting in which it

works best." Now this is mentioned at least twice on this link, also which contradicts what you just stated below.

With the additional 100 miles of urban driving, ostensibly to quiet those who would think the contest unfair, how many urban

miles do you think were involved in the entire trip? 50% of the total? More than that? Less? How many?

Who knows if the drivers in America will eventually become sophisticated enough to buy more modern diesels or continue to

fall for the hype put out by the sellers of hybrids? I suppose they would if it weren’t for all those obnoxious misleading

addies that downplay the part about still needing a gasoline engine as a back up, for highway trips, and to recharge the

battery pack. The newer Prius will eventually be built even more like a golf cart, however, and you will be able to recharge

the battery pack with an extension cord. It will still use fossil fuel even with this modification though, unless all your

electrical power is provided through wind, nuclear, or solar energy. As you know, most electrical energy is produced from

coal &/or oil. And the Prius will still have that darned back up gasoline engine. Therefore it will continue evolving into a

more and more complicated electro-mechanical contraption.

In any case, AK, I’m glad to see that you’re finally coming around to my way of thinking but you still didn’t acknowledge

that BMW had received The 2008 World Green Car Award. Quite an achievement, eh?

"Nope, wrong again. It was the newspaper that instigated the test. I think they were just trying to prove a point and

did a darned good job of it."

Oops sorry. No urban driving, no fair comparison. No mention of urban driving was written here on this link.

"hybrid drivetrain in the in-town setting in which it works best. (But even with this "advantage" the Prius still ran out of

gas."

Read this? "The Prius ran out of gas but this happened only due to smaller tank and because the car is made for urban live."

"50cal: "Now, now, AK. Don’t be waffling on me now. I thought you were for the green cars and not the guzzlers??"

Ah yes, it seems that most of my comments have been about saving the world, going green and gushing over hybrids and condemning those blasted SUVs and performance cars.

Bottomline is, a Prius with a gas engine gives around the same mileage as a higher density diesel engine and considering thats one of its biggest market is America, I don’t think diesels will jeopardise its sales. Besides, most places in America actually have higher prices on diesels so it comes back to the same thing, the better mileage you might get in a diesel is offset by the lower price of gas.

"your surprise and outcry would have been even larger."

Uh, Iam not the one writing 5000 word comments. Seems like you are the one surprised that someone wasn’t gushing over a BMW.

This could go on but I just read something about an electric R8. Iam gonna go check that one out, being a guy who loves hybrids and all that, ya know.

A quick trip to the BMW site shows they have 24 models that achieve 25 mpg or more. This doesn’t include any diesels. All this talk about gas-guzzling, I expected to find they were just getting 5 or 10 mpg. I see that the BMW 750i sedan sports a 4.4L V-8 that achieves more than 20 mpg. Not bad for a small V-8 four-door sedan.

You mentioned somewhere in so many words that BMW wasn’t Green enough.

See this topspeed article: Bmw 118d receives 2008 World Green Car Award

They don’t give out these awards Willy-Nilly. Whoever gets an award like this has to jump through some gigantic hoops. I know you will want to review this article, even though Prius wasn’t mentioned. Now don’t tell me BMW gave the award to themselves??

See also this topspeed article: Prius Overhyped? BMW 5 Series Diesel Gets Better Mileage, Posted on 03.17.2008 09:47 by

Ralph Kalal

"Here’s the test which The Times put the two through:

Both cars were driven from London to Geneva, “using motorways and town driving.” That’s a direct route of 460 miles, but the

newspaper added an additional 100 miles of urban driving, specifically to give the Prius an advantage through use of its

hybrid drivetrain in the in-town setting in which it works best. (But even with this "advantage" the Prius still ran out of

gas. Sorry, I couldn’t resist. 50cal)

Results?

50.3 mpg for the FULL-SIZE BMW equipped with a four cylinder diesel.

48.1 mpg for the (compact) Prius.

Bottom line: drive a Prius if you’re looking to make a politically correct statement, but don’t presume to believe that you’

ve found the only true way to save fuel or reduce emissions – or even the best way."

Now, AK47, I know you’ve seen this article about 16 months ago. I saw your post there, so I know you must realize that the

BMW/Prius economy test drive included over 17% driving in an urban environment to quiet the whining from those Prius weenies.

And you and I know who some of them are, don’t we? 8-)

Here is your post from that site on this article: "AK 47 (6755) - Posted on 03.17.2008
While diesel is more enviromentally friendly, it is not completely safe. I agree with Dan and Kingtiger- the price factor

also has to be taken into account. And BMW, stop trying to show people that you are concerned about about the enviroment,

because BMW cars have the highest fuel guzzling rates, what with their large engine capacity(in litres), but they still have

crappy performances. The only people who actually seem to have the enviroment in mind are(whether you like it or not) the

Japanese and Audi, who are also developing high performance diesel racing cars."

I don’t blame you for considering the price. I’d do the same but the fact remains that the snobbish BMW beat out the Prius. Did

you see the comparison between the Prius and the VW Jetta? Check it out on u-tube. Look for "Jetta Takes on Prius: Toyota

Prius vs. VW Jetta TDI Diesel"

AK47 (805), Posted on 07.30.2009

"There are a number of things I would like to point out but I am a little pressed for time."

50cal "I get that way too but this is important. Right?"

AK47: "One, trucks use diesel engines because diesels have massive amounts of low end torque that no gas engine will ever

have."

50cal: "Electric motors and steam engines also have massive amounts of torque at low speed. The real reason that large

trucks, ships, locomotives, etc. use diesel as a fuel is that it is more economical than gasoline. A Prius uses gasoline, a

diesel does not. I might add here that a locomotive is really a hybrid. It uses a large diesel engine to turn a generator or

alternator to charge batteries which power electric motors which make it go. Why not a Prius with a bit more quality, better

handling, less complication, and a diesel engine. Then I would be happy with it. OTW I would probably opt for a Jetta/Golf."

AK47: "Two, check out the price of a Prius versus a BMW. And check the reliability also."

50cal: "No doubt, Toyota has good quality control but BMW must be doing something right, unless all the buyers are simply

snobs. Besides if we go to the quality thing I suspect we can’t compare a $50,000 car with a $23,000 car and expect the same

quality."

AK47: "Three, (and you lost all credibility with this one) fair and square test? A test that didn’t include urban driving and

was in all probability carried out by BMW itself."

50cal: "Nope, wrong again. It was the newspaper that instigated the test. I think they were just trying to prove a point and

did a darned good job of it. A more fair test might have been a VW Jetta vs. the Prius on the same road trip since the two

cost about the same and have similar quality. In fact the Jetta is actually lower cost. See the u-tube video. Besides, now I

know you’re just trying to get my goat. You already knew about the urban segment as I’ve stated above."

AK47: "And no, I wouldn’t take a snobby BMW or a Prius on a long haul. I’d find the biggest gas guzzler I could find and

drive that."

50cal: "Now, now, AK. Don’t be waffling on me now. I thought you were for the green cars and not the guzzlers??"

There are a number of things I would like to point out but I am a little pressed for time.

One, trucks use diesel engines because diesels have massive amounts of low end torque that no gas engine will ever have.

Two, check out the price of a Prius versus a BMW. And check the reliability also.

Three, (and you lost all credibility with this one) fair and square test? A test that didn’t include urban driving and was in all probability carried out by BMW itself.

And no, I wouldn’t take a snobby BMW or a Prius on a long haul. I’d find the biggest gas guzzler I could find and drive that.

First of all, the World is in no danger of running out of fossil fuels in the near future. So rest easy. We may be nearing the end of the cheap fossil fuel era but, trust me, we have plenty more fossil fuel. When we finally use that last drop of petroleum, which won’t happen in our lifetimes, we will still have oil shale and coal, enough to last for many, many years. Oil shale and coal can yield fuel for our Toyotas and BMWs. Just because we have plenty of fossil fuel left doesn’t mean we should squander it like we’ve done for so many years, and that’s the reason many knowledgeable engineers are designing more efficient and cleaner burning diesel engines. Diesel engines offer the most efficient method of burning fossil fuels, as well as some renewable non-fossil fuels. As you know, most diesel fuel is just as much of a fossil fuel as gasoline is. I can’t find where I stated that diesel was not a fossil fuel as you suggested but, since you brought the subject up, there are some renewable, aka non-fossil fuels, that can be used by diesel engines. You may want to help save the Planet by driving a diesel powered automobile that can burn renewable, bio-diesel made from recycled fry oil, for instance, or algal derived bio-diesel, both non-fossil fuels, which cannot be used in gasoline engines but work quite nicely in properly designed diesel engines.

You said this, “Hybrids by the way are made so that companies are one step closer to making cars that run without fossil fuel.” One step closer?? Didn’t we have electric cars in the 1920’s? Why do you think we weren’t still driving them in the 1930’s? My point being that electric cars are not a new idea. Neither are diesel powered cars and trucks.

You also said this, “How much use do you think a diesel will be when you run out of fossil fuels?”

Well, if we were about to run out of fossil fuels, which we aren’t, I think I would burn some renewable bio-diesel fuel in my diesel engine. What would you burn in your gasoline engine? Perhaps ethanol? Not a very efficient fuel but it would get you around as long as the winos leave you alone. The diesel would still perform about the same, or better, in that distant future time as it does now.

And, you said this, “Hybrids by the way get better mileage in city driving so using your theory that the TDI getting lower mileage in city driving, how will it get better mileage than a car that recharges between stops and conserves energy when the diesel will just be burning gas even at idle?”

Any engine that is sitting still while running gets exactly zero mpg, even if it is only to recharge your batteries. The trick is to not sit still while the engine is running and vice-versa, don’t let the engine run while the car is standing still. We already have diesel powered cars that can exceed 100 mpg in normal driving. To increase their efficiency they automatically shut down when stopped in city traffic and restart automatically when you push down on the accelerator. These cars are not yet in wide production because there is no great demand for them and because the general public is not yet aware of how efficiently a car can be built if necessary. So, those, such as yourself, who see for the first time a car that is diesel powered beat out a Toyota Prius in an efficiency test are naturally surprised. I’m sure that if the BMW 520 had this simple modification it would have added several more mpg to its efficiency rating and your surprise and outcry would have been even larger.

Did you ever wonder why all long-haul trucks are powered by diesels? Why all trains are basically diesel powered? Why all large ships, excepting for the nuclear powered ones and “The African Queen”, burn diesel fuel? Its because diesel engines are much more efficient than gasoline engines. So, you shouldn’t be surprised and dismayed that a diesel powered BMW beat out a Hybrid Prius in a fair and square economy test.

The truth of the matter is that until we can power our cars with flux capacitors and di-lithium crystals we are going to have to make the wisest use of the fuels we have at our disposal. At this point it seems more wise to be driving a BMW 520d than a Prius. Please don’t tell me the answer lies in a Prius, when a slightly modified BMW can beat its mileage. Even if you could recharge your Prius at home you would, in most cases, still be using fossil fuels to produce the electricity just like you do when you are running the Prius with its gasoline engine.

In all seriousness, wouldn’t you really rather take a long trip from London to Geneva in a nice comfortable BMW than in a tinny, plasticized little rice burner that weighs 250kg less? I would, especially if the BMW actually gets better mileage than the highly touted Prius. Don’t believe me, however. Go check out the Prius for yourself and then compare its quality with that of the BMW. On the Prius be sure and check out the plastic seat rails, etc.

What are you talking about? Diesel is also fossil fuel. Recharge? Its a bloody hybrid, thats why you have the gasoline engine. When the battery runs out of power, the engine kicks in charging the battery at the same time. Hybrids by the way are made so that companies are one step closer to making cars that run without fossil fuel. How much use do you think a diesel will be when you run out of fossil fuels?

Hybrids by the way get better mileage in city driving so using your theory that the TDI getting lower mileage in city driving, how will it get better mileage than a car that recharges between stops and conserves energy when the diesel will just be burning gas even at idle?

And sorry but Toyotas have higher quality and reliability than BMWs.

Yeah, I used to think the Prius was the answer too, until I found out it still uses a fossil fuel engine and can go just a short distance before a recharge. It makes more sense to use a more efficient diesel engine than the gasoline one furnished with the Prius which only gets around 38 mpg on the highway. The VW Beetle diesel TDI has been getting 43-56 mpg on the highway for years and not much less than that in city driving. Tell me what a ’fair competition’ would be between the Prius and the BMW 520D or between the Prius and the VW TDI? I suspect the 520D would also do well in city driving (like the VW TDI does) since a diesel engine naturally runs leaner at low rpm. The 520D isn’t your grandfather’s diesel. Diesels are much cleaner than they used to be, squeeze more energy from each gallon of fuel, and use less energy to refine their fuels, as compared to gasoline. In a plug-in hybrid, which is all the rage these days in hybrid circles, a fair comparison must also take into account the fuel (coal, nuclear, heavy oil) used to produce electricity to charge hybrid batteries. After about 5 years you can throw your hybrid batteries into the recycle heap, if they haven’t blown up first. Oh, haven’t you heard about those? This is equivalent in cost to changing the engine in your car about every 5 years. These last few things seem to be forgotten in any comparison between hybrids and other vehicles. BTW, the BMWs really are much higher quality than the Prius.

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